What Is My Stroller/Pram/Baby Carriage Worth?

This post is the first of two.  The second post, which will show up in a few days, will give some examples of what I discuss here.

The  most common question sent to me, as Curator of The Pram Museum, is the one above:  “What is my stroller/pram/carriage worth?”  There’s a short answer, and a long answer.  The short answer is this one:

It’s worth what someone will pay for it.  No more.

Here’s the long answer:

With rare exceptions, the most popular models (the ones that look like  pretty, usable, or classic baby carriages) generally sell for from 30 to 60 dollars, occasionally up to 100 dollars.  But — and it’s a huge qualification — that’s if they sell at all.

As strange as it seems, sometimes it’s impossible to give a pram away.

The problem is finding someone who will buy it.  Does that sound odd?  Doesn’t everyone love old prams?  Well, yes.  Loving a pram, though, is a completely different matter than storing one. Few people have the room to store a buggy the size of a small couch, or, these days, a lifestyle that lets them use a baby’s vehicle that’s larger and bulkier than an adult mountain bike.   For instance, you won’t be putting a pram into the back of a mini-van if anyone else needs a seat.

As a result, valuing a pram or vintage carriage or stroller is tricky.  In general, the values I cite above are accurate, with a few exceptions.  Currently, one exception would be the more modern prams from the 1970s and later made by Perego — which can go as high as $200.00 [USD] if they are in excellent shape and/or come with the complete stroller attachments as well as the pram bodies.

Peregos  may sell better than other brands because the brand is a current one — Peg Perego makes hugely popular contemporary strollers and has an excellent reputation for quality, both now and then.  Another exception, though, is any clean, attractive, pram that looks usable for a modern baby; the price point always may be higher if someone actually intends to use the carriage.  Used Emmaljungas from the 1980s and 1990s may bring a slightly higher price, too.

Another exception is the Inglesina classic prams, which are still sold, new, in the USA.  Used Inglesinas, with or without the corresponding stroller seat, often sell for $400 to $600.  (Depending on the model, a new set costs around $1,000.)  And there’s always another exception — the buyer who falls in love with yours and must have it, no matter the price.  It’s rare, but it does happen.  The sky can be the limit in this case — but it’s a very rare exception.

In other words, it’s always possible that you might find a buyer who would pay  more than is typical — maybe a lot more.  But, it’s not likely, and it’s finding the buyer that is the issue.

Even if you do find a buyer, geography can be a significant obstacle.  Some strollers can be shipped conventionally with careful packing (I’ve done it myself; others have also shipped foldable models to me this way.)  Full-size carriages and prams are another matter.

Vintage Peregos can be broken down carefully, if you know how to do it, and shipped in several cartons — but they’re still heavy, and it’s expensive.  Other vintage prams must be crated, and shipped by bus, train, or truck, often at a cost of several hundred dollars or more — along with a lot of inconvenience.  (You may need a truck yourself to pick it up at a freight depot.)  Most people aren’t willing to go to these lengths to own a baby carriage that they’ll use for only a brief period of time.

Collectors are a different matter, but, even for collectors, the transportation issue isn’t trivial.  We’ve taken some crazy trips ourselves to pick up prams, but even we have had to pass up some lovely things when geography proved too much of an obstacle.

Strollers, whether a $1,000 Orbit, a Stokke, or whatever, are not an investment.  They are transportation.  Nor is that vintage pram you  covet an investment.  If you love it, buy it and hope you can sell it if you need to, or want to, but don’t expect it to appreciate in value; that’s extremely unlikely to happen.

Even your trendy Bugaboo only has value as long as a market exists; if it hasn’t been beaten up too much in use; if there aren’t a huge number of similar used ones available; and if there are people with disposable income who want to buy one.  And even then, you won’t set the price; the market will.  And it won’t be nearly what you paid for it new, almost certainly.

Spotted In The Wild: Easy Traveller

San Francisco. Japantown.  Maclaren Easy Traveller Car Seat Carrier.    Loaded to the gills, which shows off a major feature — a huge, usable basket:

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I’ve never understood why people buy the Graco and Kolcraft versions so much more frequently than this Mac model.  It’s basically a stripped-out Volo, meaning that the frame is lean and light, it’s highly maneuverable, and it’s actually got working wheels.

Of course, I don’t understand the US passion for carrying babies around in plastic crates in the first place.  In what universe is it a good idea to keep a baby stuffed into these horrors for hours on end?

No, I don’t buy the argument that if you take her out of her car seat, she’ll wake up.  If she wakes up, that’s a clue — you’re supposed to be interacting with her.  And that’s a good thing; a baby who gets used to the exact same, unstimulated environment early on is missing a ton of opportunities to get used to adapting to the changing world around him — during the moths when it’s most important for him to be soaking it up.

Get a stroller or pram you love, and let your little person wiggle, kick, and interact (or sleep without being mashed to bits) to his or her heart’s content.  It’s good for both body and the soul.  Yours, too.

The (Further) Horrors of Globalization

Could this stroller be uglier?  More ungainly?  More, dare I say, hideous?

grc-jp

Well, I suppose it could be more hideous if it were battleship gray, but my point still stands.  How about that curved frame?  Neat, isn’t it, the way it mashes up the stride space?  Personally, I just love the way the hood and the back of the reclined seat press into Mom’s legs – more intimate that way, doncha know?  And I loooove the way that huge, messy car seat slops all over the stroller frame.  It gives new meaning to the whole “compact” strolling experience.

I like all the extraneous plastic bits, too, and the clumsy way the frame pieces connect.  All in all, it’s a winner.  Who is responsible for this?  Why, Graco, of course.  That is, Graco Japan.

Oh, the horror.  I knew they’d taken over Europe, but I had no idea that this pathetic excuse for design had infiltrated Japan, too.  It’s a sad day for humanity.

Related:  The Gracoization of Europe

Spotted In The Wild: Foray

San Francisco.  Japantown.  Maxi-Cosi Foray:

sf-mc-fry-300

Fully loaded, and trucking along.  I like the concept, but am not crazy about the execution:  Nobody in any store where I’ve seen a Foray has been able to fold it.  This not good.  It’s got the handle, and the feel, of a much less expensive stroller.  I’d like to love it, but I just can’t.

Mailbag: Children’s Coaches, etc.

By email:

Well this query is a bit of a longshot but here goes:  I live in England and have just bought a miniature Victoria carriage (ie an exact replica of a full size Victoria carriage as used by the well to do in the 19th century but on a much smaller scale and designed for a child).  It is an original and was designed to be pulled by a small pony (or possibly even a goat or large dog).  It has the usual driven carriage amenities – whip holder, coach lamps, underseat storeage etc and there is (as on the traditional Victoria) a small driver’s seat for the coachman as well as the passenger seat.

I’ve been trying to find out about the history of children’s coaches and find the similarity between the coach and early prams really interesting.   There is very little information out there about children’s coaches (well, I suppose it is a pretty obscure subject in the general scheme of things!) and I wondered if by any chance you knew anything about them – I suppose my main curiosity is about at what age did a child go from using a pram to using a coach (if indeed that is what happened).  There’s a story that Queen Victoria’s children rode in miniature coaches around one of the estates but I can’t find any facts to substantiate this.

The link between horse-drawn carriages, coaches and prams is no accident, of course. Just as prams were heavily influenced by automobile styling in the latter half of the 20th century, so were early prams designed with adult coaches in mind. A sure-fire quality endorsement for a traditional perambulator was to call it “coach-built”, implying that it was made by hand by true craftsmen. (And, yes, they were men!)

When  horses were abundant, coaches were a practical means of travel for people of all economic levels, and it’s quite possible that Queen Victoria’s children gallivanted about in child-scale versions – an excess of wealth often leads to this sort of extravagance. In line with the idea that a picture is worth a thousand words, this charming children’s coach illustrates the point (it sold, according to the auction house, for £1,880):

auct-carrWhen automobiles were new, early designs owed a lot to the old-style, equine-driven buggies.  Here’s a photo of Lord Howard de Walden in his horseless carriage (a Panhard, I think, late 19th, early 20th century). It’s obvious that these two buggies are cousins, if not outright siblings:

hs-lsAs the 20th century lumbered onward and prams acquired steel bodies, baby carriage design was often influenced by what was going on in the automotive world.  But that’s a post for another day .  .  .

Your question about “what age a child [went] from using a pram to using a coach” isn’t entirely simple. Prams became ubiquitous in the late 19th and early to mid 20th centuries (at least in England), but proper children’s coaches were mostly playthings of the wealthy, as were other elaborate wheeled toys.

Jack Hampshire’s book, Prams Mail Carts & Bassinets, has a photograph of two of Queen Victoria’s children, not in a coach, but in an elaborate carriage with two pretend horses prancing ahead.  There’s a pushbar at the back, but this may have been more of a plaything than serious transportation. Certainly, a toddler would not be sleeping in it.

A pram used to walk a baby, or to put the baby out into the garden, might have been used from birth to five or six years, especially if Mother did her marketing in the village, and had to lug baby, toddler and slightly older child all home along with the day’s haul from the butcher and the greengrocer. Utility, rather than age, often defined “use” in the case of the old “nanny prams”

However, simpler carts like this one, from an 1886 newspaper ad, were used by children generally, as noted, from four to twelve (as the ad claims):

mlct-1886Similar carts (“mailcart” style), as noted by Jack Hampshire, were pulled by goats or donkeys (and probably a pet pony or two), commonly at the seashore, where even non-coach owning children could enjoy the novelty of lurching along behind a pretend horse.  Here’s a fictional rendering of little Harry in his goat cart (1894):

go-ct-1894-gutI can’t be sure exactly how your “Victoria carriage” fits into the scheme of these things, though, and not just because this is out of my area of expertise. It sounds as if yours is a marvelous miniaturized version of an elegant full-sized coach, which would be rather different from what Jack Hampshire defined as a “Victoria” style perambulator. Here is, for example, is Prince Charles in his “Victoria”, which is definitely a pram, not a small coach:

ch-vct-300The phrases “Victorian” and even “Victoria” have become so imprecise as to be essentially  meaningless; often people just mean “something old and quaint-looking”.  Hampshire uses it quite specifically, though, to refer to this style, which developed from invalid chairs (early versions of what we call “wheelchairs” now), rather than from coaches or carts, though there’s obviously some borrowing here and there.

Prams Mail Carts & Bassinets, a marvelous book, has been reprinted, and a limited number of copies have recently been available from the Jack Hampshire Trust; however it seems to be off-line now.  I’m investigating, and will post when I learn what’s happened to the site.

Spotted In The Wild: Bugaboo Bee

San Francisco, Union Square:

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The interesting thing is, why don’t I see more Bees around?   They fold better than other Bugs, and they’re easier to handle, so they should win on practicality.  They’re lean and sleek.  On the other hand, the “bed” is a bit kludgey, and the seat looks uncomfortably narrow for a snowsuit.

I’ll bet it’s a cachet issue.  If you have to have a Bugaboo, why not go all the way?  It’s just possible that not everyone you see will instantly know you’re driving a Bug if it’s the lowly Bee.  I hope that’s enough comfort when you’re trying to fold the thing.

A Thousand Lights

Well, all right, only six, and a bunch of mirrors.  It’s UK comedian Ian Moore, crossing a street with quite a cheerful-looking vintage pushchair:

im-hedlts

Note his vigilance.  Smart.  It’s best not to rely only on your equipment.

Mind you, I don’t know why he’s pushing this stroller, or what he’s got in it.  Could be a couple of puppies, the day’s shopping, or several cartons of cigarettes (of which he seems quite fond).  It’s hard to say.  Cool wheels on the stroller, though, and nice bit of dash, that yellow.

Source:  Sir Lord Thomas, who seems simply to be flogging Moore’s PR stuff

Spotted In The Wild: UPPABaby Vista

San Francisco (or, more accurately, down the Peninsula).  Caltrain.  Can we talk?  This is just wrong:

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It’s OK to ride the train with your UPPABaby Vista, even if it’s on the larger side.  But you really should learn how to fold it so that it, well, folds.  Because if you folded it, you wouldn’t need six whole seats for you, your stroller, and your toddler son.

Alternatively, you could have parked your Vista in fully functional mode (or even a huge, old fashioned, Marmet nanny-pram) in the nearly empty bike car, without hogging any seats at all.  Except the one you actually needed, that is.

Pram Clock

It’s really a Pram Watch, but we couldn’t really use that for a post title, now, could we?

clk-prThe website’s a bit of a mess, scripting errors show up in the browser, there’s no product description, and this item (number CK412) is listed at 17.99 USD and at 21.99 USD, but the idea is kind of fun.  The watch face is a little oversized, but it hints at Inglesina’s former pram body:

ingiI’m guessing this is made of plastic or resin, perhaps with a cloth hood.  The detail on the hood, and the traditionally-designed dual-sized wheels (which allegedly turn!) are nice touches.

Although product and shipping prices are given in US dollars, repairs and replacements require returning items to Vancouver, Canada, which is a bit odd – and not really a reasonable option for a $20 or so item if you’re posting from the US.   Nonetheless, it might be a nice little conversation piece, whether it turns out to be a useful timepiece or not.

Sppotted In The Wild: Quinny Zapp

San Francisco.  Caltrain Station:

sf-pk-zp-400

From train to sidewalk to cab in about two minutes flat.  Flash, style and convenience!